MwM: Serbian Records with Fr. Ivan Delic

DearREADERS,
Our guest on Mondays with Myrt today, direct from Serbia, is Fr. Ivan Delic 

Иван Делић

to share information about traditions associated with surviving birth and baptism record books, some digitized on DVD. He describes a period when people were not permitted to be baptized, so some of baptisms were listed 40-50 years after the birth of a person.

Fr. Ivan told us he was "deeply touched and surprised" that his genealogy mentor Crista Cowan stopped by for this special event. He attributes his improved research methods to her guidance. 

Cousin Russ worked years ago with Fr. Ivan on Family Tree Maker, and introduced him to the citation work of Elizabeth Shown Mills. I dare say that Elizabeth would approve of the citations we viewed on Fr. Ivan’s slides.
Fr. Ivan became an "uncle-grandfather" when his sister had a baby boy. Isn’t it interesting the varied traditions for naming precious family relationship?

Links We Mention

If you cannot view the embedded video on your device, use this link: https://youtu.be/gx10OMsWL-g
SD is replaced by HD and CC usually within the hour of uploading.

Selected Text

09:54:25 From  Frank Jatzek  to  All panelists : When we are at Wikitree Ellen Thompson-Jennings posted a Blogpost about her upcoming week. I pregamed a bit and discoved a Churchrecord for one part of her German Ancestors that she didn’t had and translated it.
10:00:26 From  Michelle Grant  to  Everyone : Hello everyone from Omaha, NE.
10:00:33 From  Betty-Lu Burton  to  Everyone : Hello everyone
10:00:37 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Hi Everyone!
10:00:37 From  Michelle Grant  to  Everyone : No
10:00:48 From  Susan WEBSTER  to  All panelists : Hi from Woodstock, CT! Sunny now!
10:00:52 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  Everyone : Hello for Iowa –
10:01:09 From  Kathleen Daetsch  to  All panelists : Good afternoon
10:01:13 From  Michael Nier  to  All panelists : No snow in Bradenton.
10:01:23 From  Karen Looney  to  All panelists : Hello from Arlington, WA.
10:01:27 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Sounds good
10:01:30 From  Patricia Jackson  to  Everyone : Hi from Kentucky
10:01:37 From  Karin Robinson  to  All panelists : Hello from the Space Coast of Florida
10:01:43 From  John Boeren  to  All panelists : good morning, good afternoon… greetings from the Netherlands
10:01:55 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : good morning, good afternoon… greetings from the Netherlands
10:01:57 From  Flo Merritt  to  All panelists : Hello from Eastern Oregon.
10:02:08 From  Apathy Laszlo  to  All panelists : Hello Pat from Englewood FL
10:02:10 From  Frances Dielmann  to  Everyone : Hello from Oberursel, Germany
10:02:32 From  Pam Wade  to  Everyone : Hello from South Carolina
10:02:32 From  Judy Sova  to  Everyone : Hi from Michigan
10:02:35 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : Hello from Potsdam, Germany
10:02:40 From  Jenny Hawran  to  Everyone : hello from sunny and warm (62F!) Connecticut
10:02:40 From  Myra Lindgren  to  Everyone : Good morning from Casper WY!
10:02:43 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : Hi from Serbia
10:02:59 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  Everyone : 48 and Spring showers in Iowa
10:03:06 From  Hilary Gadsby  to  Everyone : Hi everyone
10:03:11 From  Linda Stentz  to  All panelists : Hi from Cincinnati at 59.
10:03:40 From  Myra Lindgren  to  Everyone : 30 degrees here with a clear sky…

DearMYRTLE and Cousin Russ recognize the United Nations’ International Decade for People of African Descent 2015-2024. We reach out to all regardless of race, color, creed, sexual orientation or national origin with support for researching family and documenting cultural inheritance.
10:03:47 From  Frances Stein  to  Everyone : only 63 in Clearwater Beach, FL right now. cloudy, and light mist!
10:04:22 From  Linda Stentz  to  All panelists : Just finished reading the Murders of Chester Creek.  What a wonderful book.
10:04:44 From  Sally Smith  to  Everyone : 41 degrees in Bellingham, Washington
10:05:18 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Hi Christa!!
10:05:57 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Very nice to meet you Father Ivan 🙂
10:05:59 From  Frances Stein  to  Everyone : Hello, Crista Cowan!
10:06:55 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : My first husband was Armenian and all my children were baptized in the Eastern Rites.
10:08:21 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Fantastic!
10:08:48 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : Is Livia a Serbian first name?
10:09:14 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : Maybe, I know about Lilia
10:10:00 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : I think Livia could e from Balkan
10:19:38 From  Cousin Russ  to  Everyone : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia
10:21:21 From  DearMYRTLE .  to  Crista Cowan(Direct Message) : I was unaware this was going to take this much time. I apologize.
10:21:51 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : What are the religions in Serbia?
10:23:09 From  DearMYRTLE .  to  All panelists : I was unaware this would take so+ minutes.
10:23:29 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Wow
10:23:48 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : That church looks a lot of the one from my home village
10:24:52 From  Cousin Russ  to  Everyone : Sheila – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Serbia
10:26:16 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : Thx Russ
10:27:57 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : very interesting architecture
10:28:32 From  Leah Smith  to  Everyone : So happy to see Father Ivan.  I occasionally wonder what happened to him and his research since we first saw him years ago.
10:28:48 From  Severn Cjumley  to  Everyone : Thanks for allowing me to listen in. Bless all of you for sharing, so kind and generous of your time and talents.
10:32:54 From  DearMYRTLE .  to  Everyone : Fascinating
10:33:38 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : It’s impressive that Serbians where able to save so many books through the wars.
10:36:25 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : It looks like there is only a first name for the mother’s name? No surname?
10:40:09 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : That pattern is exactly the same as the Germans used
10:40:42 From  Alice Allen  to  Everyone : I noticed that as well.
10:40:46 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  Everyone : Similar to the Czech archives as well
10:41:33 From  Tina Torsey  to  All panelists : This is wonderful, thank you!
10:43:17 From  Carol Kostakos Petranek : Orthodox Church books in Greece look the same as well
10:43:54 From  Myra Lindgren  to  Everyone : Wow!
10:45:14 From  Jeanne Courval : Yes, even in South Carolina, there is variation in Roman Catholic times of baptism.  Some were same day as birth (when they thought the child would die).  Some were later, a few months or years (2 months; 13 months; and  3 years, when 3 children were baptized all at once.
10:45:34 From  Jeanne Courval  to  Everyone : Yes, even in South Carolina, there is variation in Roman Catholic times of baptism.  Some were same day as birth (when they thought the child would die).  Some were later, a few months or years (2 months; 13 months; and  3 years, when 3 children were baptized all at once.
10:46:21 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : In our Roman Catholic church children had to be baptized as soon as possible, preferably the same day as the birth. If a child’s life was in danger, the midwife would perform the baptism and later ‘redone’ by the priest. Those entries show the words "sub conditione".
10:47:29 From  Hilary Gadsby  to  Everyone : Too often people think the baptism was the same as the day of birth we need to make it clear what we are recording
10:48:25 From  Myra Lindgren  to  Everyone : Same baptismal process in Sweden…
10:48:26 From  Kathleen Daetsch  to  All panelists : In my family Irish Catholic all with in two weeks
10:49:18 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : In the Catholic Church I worked for, contemporary of course, some people do not baptize until children are toddlers and even older. They just make sure they are baptized before First Communion classes.
10:49:29 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Congrats!!
10:49:30 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : I agree Hilary, always see which church/denomination you are dealing with, what the customs are, what the records say… never assume anything. 🙂
10:50:09 From  Linda Jordan  to  All panelists : My daughter was baptized 9 months after birth in another city and state because I had to have Catholic sponsors. If I hadn’t had to go home because my husband went into the military and I went home for awhile, it probably would have been a lot longer.
10:50:15 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : @Sheila Yes it has changed a lot of times. I am speaking about records before World War II.
10:51:28 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : Yes John. I work with Irish records a lot and the older records show the babies baptized within days of birth.
10:52:26 From  Kathleen Daetsch  to  Everyone : The mother could baptize the child in a situation like that in the Catholic  tradition
10:53:53 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : We have an expression for that: "In time of danger, every RC person can and should baptize."
10:53:58 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : When I left the Catholic church and married in the Eastern Church, I had to do a Profession of Faith. That is recorded in the books as well.
10:54:47 From  Kathleen Daetsch  to  Everyone : That is true here as well Hillary
10:55:11 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : Then when I came back to the RC church, I did another profession.
10:55:57 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : Fun fact… my grandmother was baptized before she was born. 🙂
10:56:05 From  Linda Jordan  to  All panelists : Yes, many people post baptismal date as birth date in their trees.
10:56:13 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  Everyone : My church does not do child baptism – only adult.
10:57:03 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : I have run across children that were baptized before birth – LOL. There was a fine if you didn’t get the birth registered within a period of time. Mother’s would lie to the civil registrar so she did not have to pay the fine.
10:57:29 From  Apathy Laszlo : VERY VERY interesting….especially because ALL my ancestors are from Hungary with my paternal ancestors ALL from Translyvania region of Hungary.  BTW:  I also was baptized the same day that I was born in 1945 in Seefeld Germany because I was so small and my mother was so malnourished after escaping from Hungary with my father that they did not know If I would live.
10:58:26 From  DearMYRTLE .  to  Everyone : Hello Laszlo!
10:59:01 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : I for example where baptized almost a month after birth under a different Name since I was given for Adoption Right after birth. And my Adoped parents where not alloved to take me home Right away.
10:59:52 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : I was born on Tuesday and baptized on Saturday. In the hospital’s chapel.
11:01:38 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : I think the change between the different Patterns can get confusing for beginners
11:03:13 From  Linda Jordan  : Finnish naming and baptismal conventions are very interesting. Many don’t have names, or the name is not told to anyone until baptism — about 3 months later. They want to look at the baby and see if their name matches their personality and looks.
11:03:33 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : Yes Frank and that is why researchers need to check church law as well as civil law in the area or country researching.
11:05:09 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : The priests I worked for really pushed me to become a Canon lawyer but I resisted. I did attend quite a few Tribunal and Canon Law institutes but backed off when I found I had to go to Rome for at least six months.
11:09:36 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : My sacramental books did that Pat
11:10:02 From  Melinda Culpon  to  All panelists : Do you find multiple religions in these records? Because in the Bohemian/Czech records from the mid 1800s for my family had both protestant and catholic records noted in "church records"
11:10:30 From  Frank Jatzek  to  All panelists : In the Civil records we update them via a cite note
11:11:13 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : Also if they took vows, had a church annulment, we put them in the baptism books.
11:15:50 From  Leah Smith  to  Everyone : Incredible work!
11:16:59 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  Everyone : Some of the Czech baptism records are in a combination of German, Czech and Latin – will drive you crazy
11:18:02 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : Sheri: after searching through one of such a books you Need a break for one day, eh?
11:19:48 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : I went to do other works after those books
11:20:14 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : talking
11:20:42 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  Everyone : @Frank – well, I cannot read German or Czech – so grateful to those that do this!
11:22:00 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Thank You Father Ivan it was a pleasure meeting you and learning about your records!!!  :- )
11:22:10 From  Flo Merritt  to  Everyone : Thank you all. Great presentation Fr. Ivan.
11:22:31 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  Everyone : So great to know that the struggles we all have with finding and reading records is universal.
11:22:31 From  Lindell  to  Everyone : Wonderful day! I really  enjoy hearing from those from other countries regarding their records, experiences, etc. Thanks to all!
11:22:49 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : Thanks to all of you for support
11:22:52 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : Yes, Fr. Ivan thank you for giving us a view of the records available there.
11:23:30 From  Jeanne Courval  to  Everyone : As far as getting help from others, I would definitely recommend join specialty genealogy societies.  For example my husband is of Czech descent.  One mystery was solved by a member of the Czech genealogy society near where we live,  They have monthly meetings and once a year they have a "bring your brick walls".    e went to that one, and someone was able to read the name of a town that we had been struggling with for over a year.
11:23:36 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : Sheila: thanks
11:23:51 From  Jenny Hawran  to  Everyone : Thank you Fr. Ivan. Really enjoyable presentation today!
11:23:51 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  All panelists : @John B – love your background picture today
11:24:13 From  John Boeren  to  Everyone : thanks Sheri… you can read about it here: https://www.antecedentia.com/2021/03/family-of-hugo-de-groot/
11:24:19 From  Myra Lindgren  to  Everyone : Thank you father…..
11:24:28 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : Myr: thank you
11:24:50 From  Melinda Culpon  to  Everyone : Great presentation Father Ivan.
11:25:02 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : Thank you Melinda
11:25:08 From  Barry Wolff  to  Everyone : Excellent!!!
11:25:16 From  Sheri Snodgrass  to  Everyone : Thanks John!
11:26:16 From  Frank Jatzek  to  Everyone : Father Ivan: if you finish writing up this presentation, please let us know, I would love to take time and read it over and over again.
11:26:33 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : Yes, I agree
11:26:45 From  Fr. Ivan Delic  to  All panelists : I am finished
11:26:55 From  Sheila Benedict  to  Everyone : Yes, I agree
11:27:12 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : lol
11:27:21 From  Maria Capaldi  to  Everyone : thanks again!!
11:27:25 From  Jeanne Courval  to  Everyone : It was great to hear about all these records in Serbia and what you are doing.
11:27:31 From  Michael Nier  to  All panelists : thank you. Very interesting.
11:27:35 From  Linda Jordan  to  All panelists : Thank you!
11:27:41 From  Kathleen Daetsch  to  Everyone : Thank you
11:27:53 From  Kathleen Daetsch  to  Everyone : Good meeting.
11:28:00 From  Apathy Laszlo  to  All panelists : Хвала вам
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Posted On: March 22, 2021 at 09:32PM